Pete The Elder

Wow! Where to start? Since when did we make English the official language of the United States?
Sure, its the most commonly used, but official it is not. It would be nearly impossible to print ballots and info in every language used in the U.S., but why not in commonly spoken languages like Spanish, Chinese, Korean, etc.? Limiting ballots to English only is nothing short of disenfranchisement.

Second, there are far more crimes committed by citizens than immigrants. Do we need to take away their citizenship. The argument that people come here to commit crimes is very tired. I would guess that less than .001% of all immigrants commit felonies while in the United States. And how is it the fault of the non-felony immigrants that their country won't extradite felons. Which they did, by the way, in the case of the murder of David March.

I also think that the right is using this reconquista movement to represent the protesters because they look bad despite the fact that most of the protesters don't believe in any form of reconquista. Just think about that. Why would people who came here for a better life choose to reverse that? It is a ridiculous argument. Many of the protesters that have adopted this reconquista language are scared and feel threatened by this new movement to criminalize them. Maybe they are just trying to prove a point.

What's wrong with being anti-capitalist or pro-communism? I believe we do have the right to believe what we want. And just because somebody has a picture of Che Guevara on their shirt doesn't meant that they are pro-communist.

When I see the pictures and videos you linked to, I see nothing offensive and nothing other than people trying to assert their belief that they have rights. Or, maybe I see a conservative video trying to pick the few radicals out of a crowd of thousands.

I look at it this way. What is the difference between me and an immigrant? I was born here. That's it. And I had nothing to do with my birth.

"The argument that people come here to commit crimes is very tired. I would guess that less than .001% of all immigrants commit felonies while in the United States."

I would put the figure at closer to 5% if not higher. Every coyote who transports other immigrants across the border commits a felony. Every immigrant drug smuggler who brings drugs across the border is an immigrant committing a felony. The immigrants who shoot at border guards and break into people's homes along the border are committing felonies. And that ignores the crimes that occur after they are settled here. The idea that only a miniscule portion of immigrants commit felonies is a joke when 10% of the inmates in federal penitentiaries are illegal immigrants and almost 25% of the prison inmates in California are illegal immigrants.

"I also think that the right is using this reconquista movement to represent the protesters because they look bad despite the fact that most of the protesters don't believe in any form of reconquista."

No, they are using the reconquista movement because it accurately reflects the views of those organizing the march and many of those marching. Why should we not take them at their word? When you demand that people pay attention to what you have to say, you should not be surprised when some do.

"What's wrong with being anti-capitalist or pro-communism? I believe we do have the right to believe what we want."

Communism is a murderous and evil ideology responsible for the deaths of over 100 million innocents and the enslavement of 100's of millions more. Right now over a billion people are suffering under the enslavement of communist dictators. It is as acceptable to believe in Communism as it is to believe in Nazism. You are right that people have the right to believe in whatever they want. And I have the right to point out that what they believe is evil and that the people who believe in it should be publicly shamed.

"And just because somebody has a picture of Che Guevara on their shirt doesn't meant that they are pro-communist."

And just because somebody has a picture of Heinrich Himmler on their shirt doesn't meant that they are pro-Nazi. But you are still responsible for what you wear.

"When I see the pictures and videos you linked to, I see nothing offensive and nothing other than people trying to assert their belief that
they have rights."

And that they should be able to break our laws with impunity. And that the US government should be overthrown and replaced by a racial dictatorship.

"Or, maybe I see a conservative video trying to pick the few radicals out of a crowd of thousands."

Except that the radicals organized and lead the march! The mainstream pro illegal immigrant groups opposed this latest march.

"I look at it this way. What is the difference between me and an immigrant? I was born here. That's it. And I had nothing to do with my
birth."

You also never broke the law to enter the country. That is a pretty major point. You are also loyal to your country alone and you do not respect any other sovereign leaders.

Here is the thing. I do not have any problem with immigrants. My father-in-law is only second generation American and I have celebrated with several friends who became US citizens. For all I know we should allow more legal immigrants. I have a problem with illegal immigrants. They do not respect our laws and cheat the millions of people trying to come here legally. I am opposed to lawlessness and anarchy and I will always be opposed to it.

I'm going to e-mail you my reply since I was blocked again.

I will try to post it when I get it. Just to let you know according to this Bureau of Justice Statistics study my guess at 5% commit other crimes was much closer than your .001%. At the time of the study there were around 8.4 million illegal aliens in the country (see this GAO study also) or around 3% of the total US population. Yet illegal aliens made up over 20% of the federal prison population and over 10% of the state prison population in several state prisons, with Arizona, California, and Texas having the largest percentages. And the vast majority of these incarcerations were not for immigration related crimes.

There were 90,700 non-citizens incarcerated in FY 2003 out of 8.4 illegal aliens (assuming all non-citizen incarcerated were illegal), which means over 1% of illegal aliens were incarcerated in prison in 2003. That ignores the ones who had committed crimes and served prison time before or since 2003, the ones who were in local jails for misdemeanors (not prisons) or who got probation, and the ones who had not been convicted yet of the crimes they committed. For instance, according to this City Journal report in Los Angeles County over 95% of the outstanding homicide warrants are for illegal aliens. The majority of illegal immigrants and illegal aliens may not commit any major non-immigration related crimes, but there is a substantial minority that does and they are a major drain on our society and major problem for law enforcement in several states.

I have different numbers than you in my reply, which I forgot to email this weekend. Although my estimate was low, yours was high. I think I had it at just over 2%.

The CityJournal statistic is a bit misleading. I am not surprised that 95% of outstanding warrants are illegal aliens since they are harder to find since they usually have addresses. So the citizen murderers have addresses.

There are lots of people that are a drag on our society, legal and illegal. However, you seem to be attributing the characteristics of this small minority of criminals to all illegal aliens. That's not fair. The rest are not only not a drag on society, but contribute greatly.

"However, you seem to be attributing the characteristics of this small minority of criminals to all illegal aliens."

I do not think all illegal aliens are dangerous criminals, but a larger minority of them are dangerous criminals than in the general population. There is also the border issue where a disproportionate amount of crime committed by immigrants is committed against those people who live on or near the border. It is not acceptable that our border has degenerated into a dangerous anarchy where water and livestock are constantly being stolen and people have to live on constant guard for their basic safety. Having an immigration policy that allows whoever feels like it to come into the country only makes these problems worse.

My ultimate goal is to have an orderly immigration process that rewards immigrants who play by the rules and obey the law and punishes those that do not; that excludes dangerous people like terrorists, murderers, and drug smugglers from the country; that encourages good citizenship from the people who we do let in; and that is at a rate of our country's choosing. Those are all extremely reasonable goals, but right now our policies are not accomplishing them and the protestors are doing their best to make sure that they do not happen in the future.

Jef, you are so unbelievably wrong. but since pete already pointed taht out, i'm going to skip to some new points.

number 1, don't talk about the whole'family looking for a better life' bull$h!+. the majority of people crossing the border are CRIMINALS, DRUG DEALERS, RAPISTS, and men who have left their wives so they can suck off our tax dollars. ILLEGAL aliens do not pay taxes, and since a large number come over here and have a lot of kids using public schools, are on welfare, and commit crimes, they as a whole bring down society.

you are right that English is not the official language. but that doesn't mean we have to also make everything in:
Spanish
French
Russian
German
Portugese
Korean
Japanese
Mandarin
Italian
Swahili
...
and so on. that would be pointless and stupid. if the VAST MAJORITY of the people of a country that you are enetering speak English, then you should friggin speak English.

i hoped ypu learned something form this. i wish i could further educate you, but i figure that you are probably too hard-headed anyways.

-American Patriot

What did I learn from this?

1. you are a moron
2. you can barely type "friggin" English
3. my friend Pete is intelligent and has good points as usual, but I will stick to my guns
4. friendly debate often gets interuppted by complete jackholes

"the majority of people crossing the border are CRIMINALS, DRUG DEALERS, RAPISTS, and men who have left their wives so they can suck off our tax dollars."

Please provide a source for that. After the research I have done it appears somewhere around 2-5% of illegal aliens commit other non-immigration related crimes. While that is higher than the rest of the population, it is not a majority.

"ILLEGAL aliens do not pay taxes, and since a large number come over here and have a lot of kids using public schools, are on welfare, and commit crimes, they as a whole bring down society."

Illegal aliens may not pay enough taxes, but it is simply false to say they do not pay taxes. In Texas for instance all state and local taxes are either property or sales taxes and I fail to see how illegal aliens do not pay those taxes. I also doubt many illegal aliens are on welfare since TANF came into existance in the 1990's. They do produce a significant drain on our public school systems and law enforcment agencies.

Thanks for the more mature counter-argument Pete. I knew you would pick up the slack after my "neener-neener-neener" post, which is all I had time for during my short lunch break.